HD DVR is completely effed up

So not only did the second reset they did for me today NOT work, but now it's completely frozen like it was this morning. I talked to a nice woman on the customer service line (3rd call of the night) who was absolutely no help at all.
I've scheduled an appointment for this weekend, to have a tech come and take a look. My third box. This is effing absurd.

I'm not holding my breath for the escalation department people I got in touch with on Twitter to help me out either. just a waste of my time.

REALLY pissed off. The box is currently unplugged, 'cause why waste electricity on an expensive, oversized paper weight?

Comcast HD DVR hell

this morning I woke up and the Comcast HD DVR box was down... again. Both the cable and DVR functions were locked up. At this point it wont take commands from the remote, nor directly on the box with the built in buttons. Basically you're stuck watching whatever channel it was that was on when you went to bed. Lovely. So I unplugged it, waited a minute and plugged it back in. Then I sent an angry email to the email address that the customer service folks had sent me yesterday, and a tweet to another CSR that had tweeted me in the morning.

During the day someone did try to call me, but I couldn't get it because I was working. So I tried to call her back and left a message. Then I left her another message when I tried to watch a show on the DVR with my son. When I went into the DVR menu it told me that the DVR wasn't available. Um. Okay?

Since I couldn't get that woman on the phone I went to my regular standby 1-800-xfinity or whatever. The guy was apologetic (really with few exceptions the Comcast CSRs I've had on the phone have been very nice even if a bit useless). He sent a signal, reset the box and told me to wait at lest 15 minutes before trying to access the menus.

20 minutes later the same thing was happening so I had to call.. AGAIN. This person was even MORE apologetic and did a more hardcore reset, apparently. This one I have to wait half an hour before I can access the menus. (apparently if you try to access the menus early it effs stuff up further, which seems problematic to me) That's what I'm waiting on right.

I'm not optimistic, and I'm pretty cranky.

HD DVR continues to be a piece of junk

I got home from work to find that the Comcast HD DVR box was only sort of working. There's a button down on the "Picture in picture" part that allows you to swap between the two tuners. I'll put two shows on and watch something I'm interested in while the commercials are on Sprout network for the kid. Well, that wasn't working.

I called up customer service (again, the automated menus DO seem a bit better somehow?) and the guy said that:
1) you have to unplug the thing for a full minute or so to get a full "hard restart." Juts unplugging it for the count of ten is a "soft restart." I'm not sure I'm buying his load of crap, but okay.
2) I can take it in to the service center for a replacement or have a service technician come out to take a look at it. WHICH I JUST DID with my other Comcast standard definition box. WTF?!?!?! You have got to be kidding me.

I opted to go for unplugging it and leaving it alone for five minutes while I walked around doing stuff about the house.

So I took to the twitter and complained to the @comcastcares account, telling them that I was jumping ship as soon as my contract with Comcast is up. I men, really, screw this.
We'll see what fruit that bears. But really, I JUST WANT A DVR that WORKS! That's all. I don't want to worry about it effing up. Crashing. Freezing. Getting stuck in a loop. I just want it to work. Please? Pretty please?

We were thinking about trying U-Verse since they seem to be getting decent enough ratings. I never thought I'd miss my TiVo so much. That thing WORKED.

(I appear to be using CAPS a lot in this post. Just so frustrated. The HD DVR was supposed to fix everything.)

HD DVR is junk too!

I woke up this morning and the Comcast HD DVR was unresponsive. It was on some movie channel or another. I wanted to turn on the TV so I could get ready while the kid watched some exciting children's shows on PBS. Anyway, it wouldn't do anything. It wouldn't change channels. It wouldn't give me a menu. Nothing.

I unplugged it, counted to ten, and plugged it back in. That was fun. It slowly crawled to life after some clicking sounds. It appeared to be, okay ish. I was able to watch channels and entertain the kid. Everything said "to be announced" but that's what you get when you do that sort of thing. At least it worked.

Made it to work without too much trouble.

Clunky HD DVR

The thing is just... not that great. It's clunky, it jitters.

Oh, if you're changing channels, after you hit the numbers, you can't hit enter. That's great. Maybe I'm too impatient, but I'd like to be able to hit "enter" and have it get on with the channel changing process for me. Please?

The woman at the customer service center claimed that the remote was the same, but now I'm regretting that I didn't insist upon getting a new remote. Of course, she would have probably produced a remote that had be dragged behind her care for five miles, so I'm not certain it would have done me any good. It just doesn't seem to work quite right. It's strange. Very strange.

Getting that sinking feeling about this DVR. Sad face.

Sometimes I'll hit a number and the light will come on, on the remote, but the DVR doesn't seem to acknowledge that it got the command. Sometimes I have to hit the number three times for it to receive. The menus just.. act all kinds of weird. I dunno. Isn't this thing supposed to be cutting edge technology or something? Maybe? Anyone? Help me?

Programming the DVR

Did I mention that the Comcast DVR takes about an hour for me to program? You have to search for the show, their search function not being stellar. Then if it's there you have to set up the options and wait for the box to add it to the list. Then do it again, for however many shows you have on your list. Since it's off season for a lot of the shows you have to save the search and hope you remember to try again before it comes on.

Anyway. Wasting more time. Maybe I should stop watching TV?

Picked up the Comcast HD DVR box

Today I went and picked up the new box. I tried to go to the customer service center I had been to before and there was a large sign saying that they'd moved. Okay then. Fair enough. That happens.

I went to the new address, which was a series of counters you stand at, with a bunch of cushy seats in the back. A woman takes your name when you enter and tells you to have a seat and they'll call your name. In front of the seats there were four large screen televisions, three of which were showing the same Comcast ads, which did little or no good since the sound was off and there were no subtitles.

The semi-nice woman called my name, took my old standard def. Comcast DVR, and handed me a Comcast HD DVR. I was a bit shocked to find that she gave me a clearly VERY used DVR with a number of nicks and bumps on it. It was certainly not new.

As I picked it up and went to walk out I noticed a rattling sound inside of it. This did NOT bode well. I took it back to her and asked if I should be concerned. She looked annoyed and said it's fine. Gee thanks!

So I took it home, set it up, and called the phone number to get it activated.
The automated menu for activation does not have an option for DVRs. So I went ahead and talked to a person. She was fine. I suppose. She activated it, but the DVR was a bit slow to respond and acted clunky in general upon starting up. It wouldn't change channels for me, but I could get it to work eventually with the arrow button.
The woman on the phone said it was just loading everything and should be fine after it's done loading everything. She said it was new, which is where I cut her off and told her that there is nothing new about this DVR. She admitted that most of the boxes are refurbished. (I think this one was refurbished with the ugly stick.)

Anyway.. I'm letting it sit a while to see how it does.

Going HD...

I called Comcast tonight and spoke to a nice customer service woman about getting the Comcast HD DVR box, that by all accounts should work just fine. She said all I have to do is take it in to the customer service center and tell them that I'm upgrading to the HD DVR box and that it has all been noted in my account.

I wonder if my account also notes that I'm bonkers and clearly watch too much TV?

Fingers crossed that I'm not fooling myself about this.

We spent some time going through shows we actually wanted to watch tonight. Thing is, new box means that ALL my saved shows are gone. Also, the hour it takes me each time to find shows and input them into the new box? Also lost. Please, waste my time some more Comcast, waste my time some more.

On, on a side note, the automated menus appear to have changed. They're a bit more clear now, or at least it suddenly seems easier to get help. Maybe I'm just so used to calling them by now?

too tired to call tonight

I'm too tired to call in tonight, but the DVR froze it again today. SO, I've decided to buckle down and get the Comcast HD DVR. We talked about it some and decided that it would be worth it to have one working when my mom came to visit in a week. Okay then. It's settled. The Standard Def DVR is so buggy that it's not worth our time. It's more trouble than it's worth.

I guess I'll go ahead and call them tomorrow... if I can muster the strength.

frozen in the evening

Again... I was watching evening TV shows. Finished my show and the Comcast DVR was frozen. Awesome.

Came home to a frozen DVR

not sure what time during the day it happened, but the DVR was waiting for me, frozen, when I got home. Lovely.

brrr, it's cold in here. I say, there must be a frozen DVR in the atmosphere

This morning, during childcare's shows, it actually froze while we were watching the show. Usually it'll freeze over night, or while we're watching something on the DVR. This one happened right in front of us, while we were watching. My son looked very confused. I imagine I looked very cranky.

Did I mention that I hate Comcast? Also, Comcast's DVR sucks.

Customer Service, how it's done!!!

I follow ThinkGeek.com on twitter because I like their products and they generally seem to be alright folks. Little did I know just how alright they are: http://www.thinkgeek.com/blog/2011/04/how-not-to-ship-chocolate-zomb.html

To summarize, they sold gag zombie Easter rabbits ( http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e88a/ ) but it would seem that they didn't ship particularly well. They melted, or broke, or both. So they had a whole bunch of dissatisfied customers.
So, what did they do?
They gave everyone a full refund! No one had to threaten them, that I know of. No one had to do any more than take the time to order it and be disappointed because they didn't ship so well. They apologized and made it right.

Thumbs up for ThinkGeek.com. Well done folks. Well done.

PS: my dvr got stuck again today. Lovely.

peacful easy fe... NOPE borked again.

The Comcast DVR had given me a few days of normal operation. I began to think maybe it was over. Then today, it messed up for me... twice. NICE! Froze in its usual, regular loop. Like an old friend. That I really really hate.

dead loop frozen weekend?

Today the DVR froze on Sprout instead of on SyFy. Well, something new at least.

Change the channel away and back and it works again. FUN!

DVR stuck in a loop

Today it got stuck in a frozen loop on the SyFy channel... twice. Awesome.

As always the fix is to change the channel away and then change the channel back. Then half an hour later it did it again (thus the twice in paragraph one up there).

Fun!

Tech support phone call fun

When I called tech support to make my complaint about the box not working, and he made the tech visit appointment, the nice man told me I could call back after the technician left to get a credit to my account. Awww, that's so sweet.

So, I called. Now this isn't really a billing call (no such options exist in the billing portion of their automated menus), and it's not really a tech support call either. Or is it? I don't know, but I went to tech support because I was also troubled by the comment from the tech that if this didn't work we'd have to pay an extra $6 a month for the higher end box. That seemed like a tech-y complaint to me for whatever reason.

This nice guy informed me that because of the plan we've been paying for, for the past year, we should have had the HD box this whole time for free. Of course after a year they then would charge $9.95 a month extra. (no idea where that tech got $6 a month from?) Apparently they don't even offer this DVR any more. They don't have a non-HD DVR at all. So, right now, if I wanted to use the DVR service that I pay for I'd also have to pay the extra $9.95 a month for the more expensive box?

Wait, one second. They are offering a service, then, that they don't even have equipment for? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

"Well, no, it's free for 12 months." Hold on, let me ask you, what happens after 12 months? "um, well then it is $9.95 per month." So, no, it's not free at all. You're waiving a fee for 12 months, but you can't tell me that it's free. You can't tell me that at all.

AND then it hit me that this whole time Comcast has had not one, not two, but three opportunities to give me that HD box that I was supposed to have this whole time and at no point did anyone say "oh, wait, you're supposed to have this nicer box for 12 months..." WHAT?
1) when they initially came and installed it. They gave us the cheaper box to begin with. The account apparently says we could have had the nicer box to begin with.
2) when I traded in the first broken piece of crap box that wasn't working. I specifically asked the woman, when I saw her handing me the same piece of crap box already with a scratch in it to indicate that it was in no way new, if there wasn't a newer or nicer box I could have instead. She insisted no, this was the box I get.
3) when the service technician was JUST HERE, but told me I'd have to pay more for it. But, but, but, according to this nice guy on the phone here NONE of that is correct because I should have had that nicer box for the past year instead of the agony of this piece of crap? Are you kidding me?

THEN, I get over that piece of consumer rage and get back to the thought that were that to have happened I'd be getting charged an extra $9.95 a month for HD DVR service when I really just want plain old regular DVR service. I don't need HD DVR, I don't pay for HD cable. Follow me here?

Sorry you're so upset sir... here's a $20 credit.

Hey Comcast, kiss my ass!

Aaaaand, it's already doing it again

So the tech guy was here today... said that it was the splitter outside... as though?

Guess whose DVR was just stuck in a loop? Did you guess mine?

As usual, changing the channel and then changing back did the trick.

Hey, Comcast, please go to hell.

Tech visit fun

Tech visit funny bit part one: I got a call at around one pm today from Comcast asking if the cable had started working on its own, and if we still needed a tech visit between four and six. She wanted to know if I'd tried unplugging it and plugging it back in. Really? REALLY!?!?! This is the phone call you want to give me Comcast? I was polite despite my inclination to be a jerk about it. Just to humor her I turn the TV back on and check the channels, nothing. Dead box, still.

Tech visit funny bit part two: The guy showed up at three thirty when we were in the middle of something claiming he showed the appointment as being between two and four. Did I mention that I was in the middle of something?

So drop everything, shuttle the family off to the other room so I can try to explain the deal to the guy and see if we can get some satisfaction. Great. (note: it IS working now, although I suspicious of the methods.)

Now he just turns the box off and than on again and... well, it works. WTF?!?!?! But he goes through a series of tests and checks this and that.

Things I learned from my Comcast tech visit:
1) They don't even use the model box that I have in the field any more. The guy looked puzzled by the fact that I got one from the lady at the Comcast office about a month or less ago.

2) My problem this whole time has been a bad splitter outside? I defy you to go through my list of complaints with the Comcast DVR box and show me, logically, how things like a freezing DVR can have anything to do with the quality of the splitter outside. My internet is through them. The connection is fine. I'm VERY suspicious of it getting any better, but I'll give them a chance and I'll see if it is magically all better now.

3) Comcast just wants more money. He said if this doesn't work we'd have to upgrade to the other box for an extra $6 a month. Are you effing kidding me? No, I don't a more expensive box. I want you to rent me a box, at the price you originally sucked me in with, that friggin' works. I don't want to get the old (pardon a phrase from a previous generation) bait and switch.

4) No one at Comcast can tell me what a "code ACC" means, despite the fact that I've had two of them since using their DVRs. To quote the guy "I've never heard of that one." Gee, thanks. So you have NO idea what the error I got was, yet you expect me to believe that swapping out a splitter outside my house is going to help with this error? Really? My confidence is not soaring.

5) I still hate Comcast, the company, regardless of how nice they train their people to be in the face of very frustrated customers.

So I have a new splitter. He updated the software (why doesn't the software take care of that itself?). And informed me that Comcast will shortly be performing the "switch" portion of "bait and switch."

Pardon me if I feel a little like Captain Ahab chasing a functioning DVR from Comcast.

Code ACC

The last time I got an ACC code on my Comcast DVR was on the old box. I called the phone number that it gives on the screen when this happens and the person on the other end had no idea what I was talking about, despite the fact that I was following the on screen instructions.

This time it got stuck, acted wonky, then just froze all together with the "Unable to Process Request" message. Seems familiar enough.

(a quick aside, in the five years I used a TiVo box I only had to call customer support a handful of times. I think five total. My calls to Comcast about their piece of junk DVR? I can't even count them any more.)

So the phone call. At no point is there an option for Code ACC. If you go into tech support for cable it gives you a number of options, none of which have anything at all to do with Code ACC.
The only way I got though to a person was to hit 00000000000000000000000000000000. More or less. Then I got put in a wait line for customer service.

The nice guy (I should note that I have never had a customer service person, in all of my phone calls, that was not a nice person. It's not their fault that Comcast rents out pieces of junk as equipment) who answered the phone asked me a couple of self evident questions. "So the screen is blank?" Well, no, it has a note saying that there is a Code ACC and to call you at this number, which I did. "And what does it say?" Facepalm.

So through a series of him trying to do stuff he got the screen of the show it had frozen on to come back up, behind the message saying to call him, and... that's it.

He asked if I had tried unplugging it. Well, no. I was following the instructions on the screen which said to call him. If it had said "unplug the box" I would have likely tried that.

In the end he determined that the box was dead and that a customer service agent would have to come out to the house. If they charge me for this I will pitch the greatest of fits. If I have to spend another hour navigating through their asinine menus to set up all of my season passes, I will also need a stiff drink.

Please, Comcast, why don't you waste some more of my time. Please.

We will see what the service call tomorrow brings. There go my plans for the afternoon.

Comcast DVR Caught in Loop

I just noticed that this is a search term that came up in my my analytics. You mean I'm NOT the only one who has problems with the Comcast DVR? No way! I'm shocked! [insert sarcasm]

If this happens to you, if it seems like your Comcast DVR is caught in a loop, the solution I have found is to change the channel to any other channel and then change it back again. As soon as you change it back you should be out of the loop. This can also look like the Comcast DVR is frozen, because once it reaches the end of the loop it freezes. Same solution.

Feeling a little frozen on the DVR

Feeling a little frozen again with the DVR. Only way to fix it, again (and again, and again, and again) was to change the channel away from the stuck channel and then back again to the channel that was frozen. Fun! Fun?

First World Problems

I just wanted to say that I'm completely aware that this whole blog is dumb because it's a first world problem. There are people out there who don't get enough to eat and any number of other horrible things. The DVR not working really really really annoys me and gives me all kinds of tech rage because I pay for it. But I have no illusions of this being the worst problem that anyone has ever had. Some people don't even have a DVR to complain about. At the same time, I feel so much better about it when I sit down and write out what the DVR is messing up this time.

Okay?

multiple freezes

Today the Comcast DVR froze not once, not twice, but three times on the SyFy channel. Piece of junk.

The fix, as always, is to change the channel to something else, then change it right back again.

I'm beginning to wonder if Comcast intentionally makes the regular DVR a piece of junk so people will have no choice but to upgrade to the more expensive HD cable box if they want it to work at all. Seems like about as underhanded a business practice as anything, no?

Frozen... one more time!

Just had the frozen DVR thing happen one more time, right after deleting a recording. Went to live TV and... frozen on a screen from something I don't recognize.

What a piece of junk.

Frozen? Again?

Came home to find the cable box frozen on a scene in the Golden Girls. Um, okay? It was unresponsive and would not fast forward or rewind.

We tried watching a show from the DVR, which worked fine, but once the recorded show was over it went back to the same Golden Girls episode. It played for a few seconds and then froze at the same place it was frozen when we got home.

The fix here is to change the channel and go back to it later.

Ugh. Is it really too much to ask to have a smoothly running DVR? Comcast? Is it?

So entertained by the ads over there ----------->

I just noticed that Comcast ads are, in fact, showing up to the right. I love this because it's just kinda twisted.

it just... ended

Tonight a recording just ended early. Unceremoniously, and without warning. Just, it was at the end of the recording and the show wasn't over yet. I was only 15 minutes into the next hour, so I quickly deleted the recording and went to live TV to see if it was longer than scheduled and was still on or something. I was able to get to the beginning of the hour and the next show started right on the hour, so... it just wasn't there?

I would have gone back and double checked the recording, but there's no "recently deleted" file to look at what you just deleted on the off chance it was an accidental deletion.

Lose/lose. Thanks Comcast. I don't hate you at all. [sarcasm]

Watching a show that's still recording

So tonight I let Destination Truth go for about fifteen minutes before I started watching it. (I'm only fairly certain that anyone with a DVR has done this at some point or another.) Then I started watching the show from the recording, while it was still recording.

Okay, right? Sort of.

When I caught up with the live recording, which is common enough an occurrence when fast forwarding through various sections, the DVR couldn't cope with it. It'd start to act funny within a minute or so of real time. Twitchy and strange, I would say.
Once I caught up to real time the DVR froze and became completely unresponsive. Nothing. Nada. Frozen.

The fix here is to hit the "live" button. Okay, but really? This is just another case of how poorly designed the Comcast DVR is. The thing should smoothly transition into playing from the live portion, or at the very least stop just short of live and play from that point. But going all the way up and freezing? Lame.

Woke up this morning to frozen TV

I woke up this morning to my cable broadcast frozen on a scene of a man and women, in sunglasses, sitting in what looked like a limousine.

The play, pause, and rewind controls were unresponsive. The "LIVE" button had no effect at all.
Changing the channel appears to have fixed the problem. Such a quality piece of equipment [sarcasm].

Studdering DVR

Tonight the DVR got stuck into some weird loop. I've seen it a couple times before.

When I'm done viewing a recording, and delete it, the box automatically goes to "live" tv, which is all well and good. Then it stops about five to ten seconds in for no apparently reason. Hitting the "LIVE" button does no good. If you switch tuners so that it's on the other station, then switch back it plays the same five to ten second segment again, and stops again at the same place.

The only way to get out of the loop is to change channels away from the channel the loop is stuck on, and then change back again. It's easy enough to fix, but I'd hardly call it a feature.

It's just this sort of common, every day glitch that makes their DVR such a piece of junk.

Working!?!?!

I can't believe it's been a whole day or two with no errors? I think that starting this blog was exactly the right thing to do. If I hadn't then the thing would have kept breaking. Right?

Ads on this blog

I went ahead an activated ads on this blog. Not because I think I'm going to get rich off of this blog, but because I think it would be HILARIOUS if a Comcast ad showed up on this blog. Just waiting for it to happen.

Another botched recording

My DVR recording of Craig Ferguson from Wednesday night / Thursday morning is divided into two different recordings. One is 36 minutes long. One is 25 minutes long. That adds up to 61 minutes. The show is only 60 minutes long and I sincerely doubt that there's no break between the two episodes.

personal disclosure

I just think it should be said, I don't work for Comcast, nor any of its competitors. I'm currently working in higher education. I'm just an ordinary person, who is fed up with shoddy product. Since I have essentially two DVR choices, Comcast or TiVo I had to go with the more cost effective.

I used to have a TiVo, but as Comcast digitized the signal on its various channels the TiVo could no longer record those channels. I wouldn't know it was happening until I suddenly had a recording that was an hour of black screen. Nice.

So it was either fork over the money for a new TiVo and upgrade my service (more and more money) or tell them to eff off and give Comcast a try. Comcast is still cheaper, and I'm not wealthy. But the whole point of this blog being that their DVR sucks? I'm never certain that it was the correct choice, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to my friends and family.

My advice? Avoid the Comcast DVR like the friggin' plague.

Anyway, I don't work for Comcast, nor do I work for any of its competitors. I never have. Ever. The company I work for, to my knowledge, provides no DVR or television services of any kind.

Frustration

Tonight my DVR is supposed to be recording Destination Truth for a few hours, during which Community and Bones were to be recording on the other station.

I watched Community off the DVR, and upon hitting "delete" to remove the recording the DVR locked up and become unresponsive. I waited about five minutes before figuring that it was gone (not the first time this has happened). I knew I'd be losing part of Bones, but I wasn't sure it was recording at this point anyway.

I unplugged the DVR, counted to 15, and then plugged it back in. When it came back on it was recording Bones but not Destination Truth. When I tried to go to the DVR to see why not the screens were all wrong and it was clear something wasn't rebooting correctly.
Upon hitting the DVR button I was sent directly to my current recordings, and not to the DVR options screen.

So I had to call the customer service number. This is where you have to push a million buttons to get a hold of an actual person. The "please tell me how I can help you" voice recognition never works so I don't bother any more. Tonight I learned that "F@ck off!" appears to bypass that crap. Then I want to box support somehow, but it only gave me options for a blue screen, "to be announced" screen, or remote control trouble. None of those were correct so I hit zero. It told me that it wasn't a correct option so I hit zero repeatedly, over and over about ten times. It then said that there was a long wait to talk to a CSR.

The guy was nice and I know the routine already. He asked what the problem was, and I told him. Then I told him that I needed him to reset my DVR and re-load the software remotely. It's not the first time I've had them do this, so I know what has to be done.

They ask for the phone number and address for the account, then the last four of my social security number. I find that sketchy, but whatever. I just want my DVR rebooted.

He then told me to wait 15 to 20 minutes and asked if there was anything else he could do. I said he was very nice but it'd be cool if he could note that their DVRs are a piece of junk and they really need to do something about that.
He suggested that he could schedule a service call and have someone come out and look at it. I'm pretty sure that they charge for those service calls, and what's the guy going to do? Agree with me that their DVRs are pieces of junk? Seriously, this is my second DVR with them and it's the exact same problems.

Why I started this blog...

At this point my experiences with my Comcast DVR have become comical. I thought maybe the first DVR I had from Comcast was the problem. It would spontaneously shut down and cut shows in half. It would lock up and become unresponsive until unplugged. It would try to record stations that I don't even get. It was just plain awful.

One day while on a customer service phone call the nice lady (I should note that the CSRs have always been very pleasant, even if a bit under trained) pointed out that I could take my DVR in for a free replacement since the one I had was clearly malfunctioning.

I now have a new DVR, going on two weeks now with the exact same problems. So I thought I'd create this blog so I could properly log all of the wonderful things that this piece of junk DVR does for me. I honestly sometimes can't believe that I'm paying for this thing